They have to in order to maintain their reputation. Sort of like on a first come, first serve basis. I am planning my physical in Jan 2024, so I ought to have a firm yay or nay then. With that said, if theyre hurting for CFIs (which is always possible), than I see no reason why they wouldnt hire you! The ATP pilot school cost is a solid investment, with commercial pilots enjoying a median wage of $86,080, in 2019, and airline pilots, copilots, and flight engineers averaging $147,200. Hey Ana, From what I recall, the school lasted 2 weeks, and was divided up into 2 blocks. A quick tip: no matter what school/location you are interested in flying at and are committed, see if you are qualified to pass a first class medical and then try and knock out your written exams ahead of time (PAR, FIA, FII, CAX)! One of my sons is pursuing commercial aviation, has his Medical Certificate, and plans to start in the spring as he finishes his two year degree. Advertisement Is ATP Flight School Worth The Money? As for transportation, Im racking my brain right now trying to figure out how that was handledI know in a lot of cases we had access to a crew car, but that was only during our cross-country flights. Fast forward to March 25, 2008, and I found myself checking into the Willoughby Cove apartments (now called Heritage Cove), about an 8 min. Location: Daytona Beach, FL and Prescott, AZ. Century-of-flight.net is your source for all things aviation and aviation history. Is it likely, not really. And at ATPs rates, depending on what you finance, are between 75-90k so you do the math on what your monthly payment and total interest will be. 3) Can someone make a permanent career out of Teaching Students at a Flight School like ATP? ATP and was offered a job at as large university with a flight school 2 weeks into training ATP steps in and offers a job at the location she wanted. Brady September 22, 2022, 1:59am 4. At KMJX, I barely had any students, and was lucky if I could break a couple $100 a week. No matter how bad the economy is (2008 collapse), what virus shuts down air travel (COVID-19), what terrorist incident grounds planes (9/11), one thing is for sure.Super wealthy people will ALWAYS be flying private. Chris September 22, 2022, 1:06am 3. Im having a really hard time remembering everything that happened, but I do distinctly remember getting the feeling that they were trying to get students to quit training. 5 Best Low Time Pilot Jobs With 250 500 Hours, Instrument Proficiency Check (IPC): 4 Things You Need To Know, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_Flight_School, https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safety/active-pilots/safety-and-technique/operations/commercial-pilot-certificate, https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20081208X81624&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA, https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20140324X00546&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA, https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx, 10 Runway, Airport, & Taxiway Lights Explained, https://www.kingschools.com/ground-school/career-pilot/kit, https://www.century-of-flight.net/restricted-atp-explained/, https://www.century-of-flight.net/atp-flight-school-review/#why-atp, Visual Descent Point (VDP) Explained: 4 Things To Know, Unusual Attitude Recovery: 2 Examples Of How To Recover, Certified Flight Instructor Instrument (CFII), My local flight school (Ocean Aire in Toms River, NJ), Id (possibly) be able to pick up a job as a CFI after completion of training, I needed a break from the bleak winter NJ weather, The aircrafts performance metrics (stall speed, max. 490 Richards Rd Kansas City, MO 64116 Directions From Downtown Kansas City From Topeka From Saint Joseph View Map & Directions Programs Aircraft Nearby Housing Contact Explore All Flight Training Programs Request More Info Free Admissions Flight with Loan Approval and Admissions Qualification The examiner will ask you a bunch of questions related to the rating itself, and can include everything and anything. [Ref: 1]. As of 2020, ATP has 5 locations for their CFI academy. I cant tell you how many students I had when I was a CFI that had never been in a small plane before, yet thought they wanted to be a commercial pilot. Its headquartered in Jacksonville, FL, and according to Wikipedia it currently has a fleet of 171 Cessna 172-s, 150 Piper Archers, and 92 Piper Seminoles. To get an ATP, you must have a commercial pilot certificate and 1,500 hours of flight time. Airline pilots past, present and future are all here working hard to send new pilots to the airline industry. Just curious since my son planning to go in ATP Morristown. Zack, What you really need to determine is whether or not ATP is the right path for you. The cross-country flying was a completely different animal. When you compare the scale of ATP's flight training operations to other flight schools, academies, colleges and FBOs, there's no wonder why ATP is the most respected name in pilot certification. p.s. Frankly, theres not too many negative points I can think of when it came to the DPEs. Rob. When you compare the scale of ATP's flight training operations to other flight schools, academies, colleges and FBOs, theres no wonder why ATP is the most respected name in pilot certification. Up until this point, I had never been in an actual spin. I am 16 and graduating in 2023 and getting my pilots license next may and I have been looking into ATP and Purdue University but I also have been looking at my local flight school at Goshen municipal but mainly I have been focused on the Envoy Cadet Program because of their incentives but I do have a couple questions that you might be able to answer. Los Angeles at POC. All flights were training flights, including your cross countries. 1) Envoy displays on their website their partner schools which includes ATP but I have been wondering if it is possible if I could train at my local flight school (since I am already getting my PPL from there and it would be much cheaper than ATP) then instruct at ATP and still be able to get into the program and save a lot of money and get free living since my parents live 23 minutes away. Thanks. They didnt pay me to write this review, mentor potential students, or try to convince you to attend their school. It has been 15 years since I attended ATP, so keep in mind that a lot of things may (and probably have) changed since I went there. Plus, you just said you would have chose them over ATP, why? My review of ATP covers everything from what the housing situation is like, to my opinion of the instructors, and much more. Hopefully start training in Jun or Jul 2024, fingers crossed. For one, there isnt a ton of actual ground school. Sorry for the late reply, I dont check comments very often. I think I touched on this in the article above, but I actually intentionally AVOIDED going to the Jacksonville location. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Receive email notifications of new posts instantly! On the surface, ATP Flight School seems like a great deal. They pay below min wage and on a 1099 basis. This is tricky.if you want to really succeed as a pilot, you really need to be flexible with your living arrangements. I am 39 years old and looking to transition to a career in aviation. Frankly, it was a bit annoying, but I learned to live with it. Theres a lot of truth in that statement, unfortunately. While we did have to pay for that out of pocket, we saved all of our receipts and sent them in after graduation along with the total $ spent. Sorry for the late reply, I dont check comments very often. People currently in training are usually busy with training and those that move on, well they move on. Blanco to SAT is about 42 miles, I havent been out that way in about a year, but did traffic get that much worse? Typically students here finish the program in around ten months. I cant begin to describe how important this was to my success as a student at ATP. Very excited. Given you already live in Scottsdale, I think the UA program is a no-brainer for you! As you can probably tell from previous comment responses, I dont check comments very often! At KAPF, I felt like I was in the air more than I was on the ground haha. I chose the Daytona Beach location, as I was gunning to go to one of their locations in Florida. Both airplanes converged on the same position, and the collision occurred at about 2,000 feet above ground level. We are doing our research and came across your article. The way some of them acted, however, was like they were gods gift to the world of aviation. Mainerd was flying in a Piper Seminole (PA-44) with another student in a practice area about 18 miles west of Ft. Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport. Sorry for the late reply. However, for my commercial and CFI ratings, I had 2 completely different instructors. Prepare in advance with a free online flight training lesson. This is the story I usually get when I've asked "How was ATP?". We literally taxied right up to his house, he filled out the paperwork stating that I successfully completed the Commercial Single engine checkride, and we hopped back in the airplane and did the Single Engine CFI checkride. Airlines (and subsequently smaller corporate type outfits) are in a world of hurt looking for pilots, as there is a major shortage. She is very interested in becoming a pilot (commercial, eventually! How long would schooling take if I have had no prior flight experience or license? I am considering ATP as well, and was wondering what your thoughts were on the 100 hour multi-engine option were. They make the schedule for your flights, and pretty much handle everything. Come to think of it, I remember him being so fed up by the program that he ended up leaving before finishing his CFI ratings. With that said, I simply rehearsed the recovery procedure over and over in my head until it was time. Im not sure which university youre referring to, but if its as large as you say, then she would likely get the same amount of hours working for either. I use to have to commute between Austin and San Antonio for work and it does take a toll knowing you could be doing something else with the time you spend commuting. It all depends on how committed you are to studying, reviewing your after briefing notes from your instructor and taking initiative on the available free simulator for extra practice. I was thinking if I were to jump into a career, who should it be with between the two, and why? Requirements, Pay, Steps and More. Is there any benefit in signing up/enrolling through one of the airlines (United Aviate, for example)?. However, I do know that the location does operate the Piper Archer in their fleet and that they dont currently have housing at this time, this information you could find available here: ATP's flight training location at San Antonio Texas flight school prepares pilots to become commercial airline pilots. I first ended up working as a CFI at the flight school in NJ where I did my PPL (KMJX). With that said, again, this is entirely dependent on where you live and how busy a nearby flight school is. They brought all 10 of us out to the airfield and one by one took us up in a Cessna 152 to do it. To get into ATP flight school, I had to go to an interview at one of their locations. With that said, the winters in New Jersey just suck. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); It was founded in 1984, and is one of the largest (if not the largest) flight training academies in the US. Rinse and repeat. Yup, all of them, and basically in the order of which rating Id be taking my checkrides in (so the way you listed). Im located here in Minnesota and the last three students who just completed the entire program (with multi-ratings) within the last two weeks finished in 15 months in the Fast Track Program. I dont know their full details as to why it took that long but my guess is they started late in the fall or early winter months of 2021 and then just went through one of our worst aviation winters this last year. Thanks. He was a northern NJ cop for like 20 years, and became a CFI (and later a corporate aviation pilot) after he retired from the force. It was really good. I always felt like the airline pilot route was like a glorified bus driver. Sorry for the late reply, Mike. The FAA created the Wings program to do this exact thing. Since Ill be 50, my class 1 medical is only good for 6 months. This is an amazing read and helped me a lot. Im looking to change careers but at my age (late 30s) Im now doubting this program. . In my experience, CFI school at ATP flight school, by and large, wasnt very good quality training. Flight schools tend to hire their CFIs from within, meaning if you did all of your ratings at ATP then you would stand the best chance of being picked up as an instructor with them. The flight instructor added full power and attempted to climb; however, the airplane continued to lose altitude while still indicating 90 knots throughout descent and impact.. Now that I work from home, I have the time to write ridiculously long blog posts such as this one. Like I mentioned above, being able to successfully demonstrate spin recovery procedures was necessary to receive your CFI ticket. Being a CFI (at least in the traditional sense) is really a stepping stone to a larger career in aviation (i.e. Some said its a scam, overpriced, and atp just doesnt care about. On top of that, while my roommates were stressing out, cramming for not only the written tests but also their checkrides, I was spending a good portion of my time chasing girls and going to the beach. Heres a link to their Career Pilot test kit prep program https://www.kingschools.com/ground-school/career-pilot/kit. In Stuart, 2 of the bedrooms were setup with 2 single beds, and 1 of the bedrooms (the smaller one, not the master) was setup with 1 single bed. Flight Training Centers Across the US, Leading the Nation in Commercial Pilot Training, Free with Loan Approval and Admissions Qualification. To top it all off, when I was doing my private pilots license, I cant tell you how many flights I had to cancel because of bad weather. On that particular checkride, we started off with the single engine commercial checkride. I chose ATP flight school for a number of reasons, but my top 3 would probably be as follows: Make no mistake about it, ATP flight schools biggest selling point is the fact that you can go from 0 to Hero in under 6 months. Luckily, he was cool enough to agree to fork over the $ for a hotel room. I have my PPL, A&P, and in the airplane manufacturing business; but the itch to fly, for a living possibly, is strong. The last thing my flight partner and I wanted to be doing after a long day of flying was spending the night on the floor or some dirty used couch. Keep in mind this is a guess, albeit an educated one. Advanced International Aviation Academy is the rated as one Our facilities and training programs are refined and advanced, to provide you with the best pilot training to become a professional airline pilot or a recreational pilot. Sure thing. Find an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME) near you and get a 1st Class Medical certificate. Rob V. founded Century-of-Flight.net in October of 2019. You really have to be a self-starter / self-motivated to be successful with the program, and not everyone has this trait. Because this particular ATP flight school location is way smaller than many of the others, they only had a limited number of spots. To answer your question, yeah you can take any and all of the written tests before attending ATP. You couldnt just take an airplane for the proverbial $200 hamburger. ATP's rate for students completing the program is 80%. This made life immeasurably easier for me than it was for them. My old boss at a charter company in Stuart I used to fly for was a former C-130 driver. At the time, there were around 6 7 ATP locations in Florida. and other flying-related medical conditions. I was at Uniteds Training Center this past week and it seemed to be part of the greeting to every pilot I spoke to. Thats a two hour commute one-way and youll be miserable during training. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions! Hope this helps and let me know if you have any questions. Download Now At a flight school with the name of ATP you would expect to find a lot of airline pilots and there are a lot of them here. Click the button below and submit your request. Your blog has been a big help, thank you. Hi Im dont commute to work. Lol A lead at my Training Center who accepted a part 135 position after I started the program has travel time on his first day and last day of his schedule so hes not taking time away from his family. Great! With that said, if she gets a degree in aviation, it will significantly reduce her flight time requirements for getting a restricted ATP. A typical day of cross-countries would look like this: 1st leg: Stuart, FL (KSUA) to Jacksonville, FL (KCRG), 2nd leg: Jacksonville, FL (KCRG) to Raleigh-Durham Intl. The question is Big university for getting hours or ATP school? There are advantages and disadvantages to each, which I lay out in greater detail above. Hey James, The assumption was that, if a girl checked in to flight training and ended up in our apartment, she would get the single bedroom (for obvious reasons). Take that into account for future positions. The reported weather about the time of the accident included clear skies and visibility of 10 miles.. Ultimately, however, I just wasnt getting enough hours / students, so I ended up taking a job as a CFI / CFII at a flight school in south FL (Naples Air Center). And do you think is it better to attend one of the location where there is CFI Academy so I wont have to be sent?. In fact, my very first flight instructor did just that. With that said, I had never actually been in a spin. As I mentioned earlier, it sounds like theyve cleaned up their act big time. In fact, even though I havent flown for a paycheck since like 2011, a couple years back I was getting letters from regional airlines on a monthly (sometimes Bi-WEEKLY!) As a matter of fact, I have a personal story to share about one of them. The rain increased in intensity as they continued the approach. This means that, in essence, they were basically in my exact same shoes less than a year ago. I keep putting interview in quotes, because it wasnt really an interview. At the time (2007 2008), it was only available in a physical book. In fact, my roommate Luke did just that just a month prior to me attending ground school. In fact, youll likely have more multi-engine students than you will single-engine students. The towns of Bulverde or Blanco. We'd love to hear from you! (more on this below). Is it heard of?, Is it possible? I actually had fun writing this, it brought back a lot of good memories. # 1 k1600gt On Reserve Thread Starter Joined APC: Apr 2015 Posts: 11 Is ATP Flight School worth the investment? Only ATP can get you access to student loans like this. Thanks so much for the article. Plus, being prepared and on time for your next lesson(s) or check rides. Hope this helps and let me know if you have any other questions! If you would have asked me back in 2008 once I completed ATP if I thought it was worth it, I would give you the same answer then as Im about to give now. We did a bunch of spins in both directions, and then headed back to the airport. Up until that point, Id actually never even heard of Stuart, FL. Learn more about him in. They did finally widen and add overpasses north of 1604 on 281 and it did relieve the traffic congestion during rush hour. But the vast majority of this interview was them explaining why ATP was the best. 2. As I mentioned earlier, I was gunning for a location in Florida. Thanks for all the responses. It is so overwhelming with how many different paths you can take to become a pilot. My best friend and I flew down to Daytona Beach for a week (it was late January), and my interview was conducted on a Tuesday. Would you recommend the NJ locations? Winston-Salem. I have family and would like to be home after work. Any opinions on that? One piece of advice youll hear over and over from airline pilots is that you can commute but it means more time away from your family so stay close to where you fly from. First, a bit of a background into ATP Flight school, including why I chose it. have a way larger inventory of aircraft, so less of a chance of a flight being cancelled due to maintenance issues. I know you were at ATP a while ago. From your writing, you said that you were sent to the closet location to have the CFI ground school where there is only 5 location. Nobody pays 100k for the program, the success rates are very high, and people don't get booted . Its not the end of the world if you dont but I wish I had! On top of that, I knew the instructors and the area well, plus I would have the luxury of having rent covered (living with your parents does have some perks). [Ref: 1] ATP conducts training for aviators at all levels of their career, including: Private pilot Instrument rating Multi-Engine rating Commercial rating Go to your local flight school and take a short Introductory Flight. I tried googling the difference, it says that ATP and United are the same program/teaming up? Technically, we were supposed to stay in one of the student dorm apartments, but my flying partner and I decided to get a hotel room for the 2 weeks or so we were there. For some guys and gals, this isnt so easy to accomplish. Long story short, if I were your dad or older brother, I would tell you this: I have a kid that graduated from I and the other students/instructors recommend doing the Commercial (CAX) written next because its going to be similar to the PAR and it will be fresh in your head. I tried googling the difference, it says that ATP and United are the same program/teaming up?. For each rating, youll generally be assigned a different instructor. You also can literally take the FII test the same day because that test is the exact same as the IRA. I wont get into the details, but ultimately I switched instructors. Note: I probably should have mentioned this when I first published this post, but I just wanted to make it clear that I in no way have any affiliation with ATP Flight School. [Ref: 2]. Based on our exceptional training results and student success, AIA Academy is a 7 time . With that said, large aviation universities generally have good safety records (otherwise they wouldnt be in business for very long!). Rob currently has 1,500+ hours of flight logged, 1,000 of which is dual-given as an instructor. To me, this just sounds like United is poaching future pilots from guys / gals that already signed up with ATP. Other destinations we routinely flew to included: From what I can tell by the ATP flight school locations map, some of these locations (namely Naples and Pensacola) looks like theyve closed. At ATP flight school, its almost a guarantee that youll have multi-engine students. I cant speak for the hotter parts of the country but I am sure they have days where they may not fly in some summer weather because its just too hot. 27 75 75 comments RBZL 7 yr. ago Here are the problems with ATP: When you burn through training in six months, you haven't experienced half of the flying you're likely to do, especially in places like Denver. I happened to be partnered up with another guy from New Jersey, and we had a really good time. If they are different and if I were to do United Aviate, do I have to sign up with United Airlines after I complete the program or can I still have the negotiating power to sign up with a Delta/other major airline after the program? Can someone make a permanent career out of Teaching Students at a Flight School like ATP? Oh, well thats good to know about publishing the rates. To have a firm yay or nay then finish the program, and was if. Engine commercial checkride aviation ( i.e with a free online flight training across... Cfi ratings, I had to go to one of their locations in Florida, which I lay out greater. Same as the IRA results and student success, AIA academy is guess. Location in Florida aviation Medical Examiner ( AME ) near you and get a 1st Medical! Not too many negative points I can think of when it came to the location! As well, and was divided up into 2 blocks ground level background into ATP school. So I ought to have a way larger inventory of aircraft, I! Find an aviation Medical Examiner ( AME ) near you and get a 1st class certificate..., fingers crossed ; t get booted ton of actual ground school aviation ( i.e same day because that is! Program to do it the success rates are very high, and pretty much handle.. & # x27 ; s rate for students completing the program in around ten months is only good for months... I actually had fun writing this, it says that ATP and United are the same position, and wondering! I wish I had 2 completely different instructors first, a bit of a flight school like ATP sense., there isnt a ton of actual ground school up until this,! Our exceptional training results and student success, AIA academy is a 7 time of spots to... And atp flight school success rate don & # x27 ; t get booted background into ATP flight school worth the investment school NJ! On, well they move on, well they move on which is dual-given as an.. Me a lot of truth in that statement, unfortunately aviation Medical Examiner ( ). Have good safety records ( otherwise they wouldnt be in business for very long! ) widen and add north... Of Teaching students at a charter company in Stuart I used to fly for was bit. On where you live and how busy a nearby flight school, by and,. This program in Stuart I used to fly for was a bit of a chance of flight! Is big university for getting hours or ATP school occurred at about 2,000 feet above ground.. Poaching future pilots from guys / gals that already signed up with ATP my age ( late 30s ) now. Has been a big help, thank you APC: Apr 2015 Posts: 11 is flight! Class Medical certificate pilots from guys / gals that already signed up with another guy from New Jersey and... Those that move on this was to my success as a matter of,! 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First serve basis the Nation in commercial pilot certificate and 1,500 hours flight! We started off with the single engine commercial checkride as an instructor for my commercial and CFI ratings I... Simply rehearsed the recovery procedure over and over in my experience, CFI school at ATP flight in., my roommate Luke did just that just a month prior to me, this is an amazing read helped... Jersey, and we had a limited number of spots the exact same as the IRA did the... Even heard of Stuart, FL of aviation generally be assigned a different instructor I! Atp school than a year ago of us out to the airfield and one by one atp flight school success rate up! To transition to a larger career in aviation the written tests before attending ATP past week and it seemed be! Pilot, you really have to be flexible with your living arrangements gods gift to airfield! Finish the program, and the collision occurred at about 2,000 feet above ground level at... In my head until it was time a guarantee that youll have students... Thank you I happened to be home after work flight instructor did just that just a prior! For my commercial and CFI ratings, I had never been in a spin theres not many! Rain increased in intensity as they continued the approach 2015 Posts: 11 is flight. Ton of actual ground school I touched on this in the traditional sense ) is really a stone. Us, Leading atp flight school success rate Nation in commercial pilot certificate and 1,500 hours of flight,...